Trading and getting fills with Interactive Brokers

[Guest]

Thaze,

Browse this entire topic. Less than a week ago we discussed this issue. Check out posts dated around July 27th.

It really is unconscionable for IB to make users deal with negative prices. But that is the reality. This issue arises only when IB considers a credit trade as a buy and a debit trade as a sell, such as for iron condors and reverse iron condors, respectively. Apparently, it was too much trouble for IB's software designers to create software that handles this anomaly for you!

FWIW, on the above (not wanting to take this too far OT), I encountered my 1st case of confusing negative pricing on TOS the other day, but not with IC or RIC (where TOS' behavior makes sense to me). It was involving a 1x2 put spread (buying a Dec 2012 14 put on something and selling two Dec 2012 7 puts).

[Guest]

Made my first trade on IB this morning. Not exactly intuitive but Combo Builder wasn't horrible. I'll have to be careful of the negative pricing when I do my first IC. Thanks for the warnings on that!!

[Guest]

Is there a way to get Trade Log to go back further than a week? I'm looking for some view that nicely shows combo trades I made in the past. Trade Logs does it but seems to have that week cutoff.

[Guest]

OK, so I am fully funded and ready to start trading on IB. It would appear that I have delayed market data. I am putting in mid price for what I am seeing quoted and never getting filled. I checked OX for the same trade. Their bid/ask totally different than IB. A pop-up frequently comes up and says do you want delayed quotes? Anyone know a quick fix to my dilemma? I must have done something wrong on set-up

[Guest]

You need to select a Data plan. Select the US Bundle and if you have more than $30/mth in commission fees it's free otherwise they charge you $10/mth for it.

[Guest]

You need to select a Data plan. Select the US Bundle and if you have more than $30/mth in commission fees it's free otherwise they charge you $10/mth for it.

Thank You Xfanman!

[Guest]

Thank You Xfanman!

Glad I could help!

[Guest listolyman]

I ran across this on the IB site

• Flat Rate - You are charged a single flat rate that includes all commissions and fees. You are not charged separately for exchange fees, clearing fees, regulatory fees, etc.
  
• Cost-Plus - You are charged a smaller, volume-based commission that does not include exchange, clearing, regulatory or other third-party fees. You are charged separately on a pass-through basis for those fees. You may be eligible to receive rebates depending on the types of orders you place (i.e., exchange rebates for adding liquidity).
  

Any ideas if/what the flat rate cost is for options contracts?

[Guest]

I ran across this on the IB site

• Flat Rate - You are charged a single flat rate that includes all commissions and fees. You are not charged separately for exchange fees, clearing fees, regulatory fees, etc.
  
• Cost-Plus - You are charged a smaller, volume-based commission that does not include exchange, clearing, regulatory or other third-party fees. You are charged separately on a pass-through basis for those fees. You may be eligible to receive rebates depending on the types of orders you place (i.e., exchange rebates for adding liquidity).
  

Any ideas if/what the flat rate cost is for options contracts?

I don't believe IB uses a Flat Rate for Options only Stocks, ETF's and Warrants according to their Fee Schedule.

You can see their Fee Schedule here -->

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/p.php?f=commission

Edited August 1, 2012 by Xfanman

[Guest]

Just got the following response from IB regarding the add/remove liquidity fees:

"Since you are entering spreads, the order is not able to add liquidity to the individual leg markets. Spreads are entered with a net price. Once the spread comes marketable, in most cases it will remove liquidity from the exchange and therefore incur the fee."

Unbelievable..

Hard to believe indeed. I'm sure I had commissions below 0.70 on spreads before, but maybe it is quite rare as they say. There's always the chance though that the answer you got is wrong

Wouldn't be the first time...

[Guest]

Thaze,

Browse this entire topic. Less than a week ago we discussed this issue. Check out posts dated around July 27th.

It really is unconscionable for IB to make users deal with negative prices. But that is the reality. This issue arises only when IB considers a credit trade as a buy and a debit trade as a sell, such as for iron condors and reverse iron condors, respectively. Apparently, it was too much trouble for IB's software designers to create software that handles this anomaly for you!

I agree that I should have browsed the threads a bit more before placing the positive bid, but I just assumed it was a "glitch". I just assumed their incompetent technicians would have programmed this in correctly so that users would not have to deal with negative numbers. Oh well, lesson learned.

[Guest]

OK, so now I see what y'all have been talking about on the negative numbers! Once I enter a position, I like to enter a "dream" limit sell order. (I know IB is gonna charge me to modify, right?). At any rate, it helps me when busy with my job to be able to adjust the sell quickly! So, the LNKD trade I set-up a GTC order to sell for $5.00. It reads as a positive number. Then I set-up a order to sell the DIS Straddle for $2.76. This immediately reads as a negative trade. I choose the option to sell. Yet, it reads as a Buy. I immediately canceled the order. I have used TOS, OX, and Zecco. Nothing so far has been as complected as IB. Quite a learning curve! I used the TWS to enter this trade under the combo section. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here?

[Guest]

Xpresstalk,

I urge you to setup an IB paper trading account to safely try out a lot of these orders. IB is complicated, but it is, nevertheless, totally learnable.

As far as I know, selling for a credit should not display negative numbers. I don't understand why you'd see negative numbers for selling a DIS straddle.

Concerning cancellation/modify fees, two things to keep in mind: 1) There are no cancellation/modify fees for multi-legged orders--thus spreads are immune from these fees; 2) Orders that have not been sent to an exchange yet, such as orders that are outside the current bid/ask range, do not incur these fees because they just sit in IB's servers waiting for the market to move. Only when sent to an exchange, which usually occurs only when the order has a chance of being filled, does it possibly incur these cancellation/modify fees.

Edited August 1, 2012 by RobertB

[Guest]

Oh, makes sense! Thank You RobertB!

[Guest]

Xpresstalk,

I urge you to setup an IB paper trading account to safely try out a lot of these orders. IB is complicated, but it is, nevertheless, totally learnable.

As far as I know, selling for a credit should not display negative numbers. I don't understand why you'd see negative numbers for selling a DIS straddle.

Concerning cancellation/modify fees, two things to keep in mind: 1) There are no cancellation/modify fees for multi-legged orders--thus spreads are immune from these fees; 2) Orders that have not been sent to an exchange yet, such as orders that are outside the current bid/ask range, do not incur these fees because they just sit in IB's servers waiting for the market to move. Only when sent to an exchange, which usually occurs only when the order has a chance of being filled, does it possibly incur these cancellation/modify fees.

OK, so I just tried again. Still negative! I should have taken your advice on the paper trading. Unfortunately, I already have 2 open positions. Just entered same trade using Webtrader and got a positive number. Maybe, I just need to enter orders via Webtrader for now! Below is TWS:

Edited August 1, 2012 by xpresstalk

[Guest]

Xpresstalk,

I see the screenshot you posted. I usually do not use that particular screen. It appears to me that IB is in this case using the negative price as a redundant indicator that you are initiating a credit trade. Kind of what you'd see on a spreadsheet tally of your bank account: positive values are deposits; negative values are withdrawals (or vice-versa). This screen is different from the order entry screen, which is the screen I've been referring to when discussing negative values.

I've attached two screenshots. One shows a sample IB order entry window for selling a DIS straddle. Notice there are no negative values for this credit trade. The other screenshot shows a sample IB order entry for selling (using IB's terminology) an iron condor (what we refer to here as a RIC). In normal conversation, since a RIC is a debit trade, I would refer to it as a "buy". However, IB refers to it as a "sell," presumably based on the formal definition of an iron condor. The IB negative values I've been referring to are of these sort. As I've said elsewhere, when IB refers to a debit trade as a "sell," such as for a RIC, you will see negative values (in the order entry window).

[Guest]

Thanks again RobertB!

[Guest]

Something I'm learning to appreciate on IB that OH doesn't have is the ability to watch a combo order (IC, RIC, Straddle, Strangle etc) on a chart with my limit order price displayed on the chart. It's a great visual aid to be able to pull these charts up and get a quick snapshot of where the trade is at and if it's approaching my target without having to refer back to notes or dig deeper into the platform. Although I could quickly tell whether a position was positive or negative on OH, having my target automatically included on a graph showing the actual combo price instead of just the underlying is REALLY nice!

[Guest]

So I really screwed the pooch today when I got the CSCO trade alert while on the road and I jumped on my iPad to enter the trade. I'm getting better with IB on my desktop but haven't used the mobile apps too much yet. I entered the straddle and adjusted the number of contracts to what I "thought" was my correct position size. I hit BUY and the confirmation window pops up but there is NO net total value of the trade?? The desktop platform gives you the transaction value but the mobile app for some reason does not. I push confirm because now I'm finishing up in my shrinks office while she's waiting for me and boom...I've just bought 10 times the number of contracts of CSCO I intended too buy!!

Apparently there's a position size multiplier on IB that I have set at 10 ( I'm guessing at this point because I just got home and haven't confirmed this yet) and instead of buying 20 contracts ( 10 of ea side) I ended up buying 200. I'll see where the trade is tomorrow but this is too large of a position for my comfort level in this one trade.

Whoops

Edited August 8, 2012 by Xfanman

[Guest]

Anyone using a screen setup they really like on IB for either Mosaic (which I'm currently using) or the regular TWS front end? I'm playing around with different screen setups but if you have something that works nicely for you that you wouldn't mind sharing I (and maybe others) would love to see it!

Thanks -- Scott

Edited August 13, 2012 by Xfanman

[Guest]

Someone mentioned the Options Rollover screen on IB the other day and I pulled it up this morning to look at Rolling the SPY put to next week. It looks pretty handy if you have a lot of positions and need to sort them out. If you use IB and haven't looked at it it's under the Advanced Tools/More Advanced Tools/Rollover Options.

[Guest]

I've heard a number of people complain about cancellation fees in IB and I got hit with my first one the other day. What I may have stumbled on though is yesterday instead of cancelling an order I had that I knew I didn't want to take the trade on I simply changed my order to DAY and put a really low Limit amount on it knowing it wouldn't get filled (and if it did at that price good for me). Anyway, no cancellation charge today as it just cleared their system last night. I have no data other than this one experience to say if this will work every time or not but it appears to have worked for me this one time and I'll try it again when I need to cancel something in the future.

Just an FYI.

[Guest]

So I opened a IB Account, waiting for funds to hit, but I downloaded their mobile app for Android and I don't see any way to place a straddle order, or anything more than a single call/put. Any ideas?

[Guest]

On the iPhone (which I would think would be damn near the same) from the Main Menu select Order Ticket, type in your underlying, then select Option Chain & Combo Builder and go from there.

[Guest]

I went to order ticket put in ibm where it says select contract.. it pulled up an option to click on stock futures options.. then more stuff for the mexi and fwb exchanges..

when I click on options it only lets me choose expiry, put or call and strike...

[Guest]

When you select IBM it should give you a menu that lists -->

Stock

Futures

Options

Option Chain & Combo Builder

Does yours not have the last menu item?

[Guest]

Nope.. well that sucks... pointless app ...

[Guest]

Now I'm REALLY confused. I've been doing pretty well with IB and then this morning I go to put in a LMT order for DELL to close the position and my order screen says BUY to Close. I've already got a LMT order in to close HPQ and it says SELL to Close. When the pop up comes up when I hover over the orders DELL has a blue BUY tab and says "To Buy 1 Straddle means SELL and to SELL 1 Straddle means BUY. HPQ has a red SELL tab (which is what my order screen normally does) and says "To BUY 1 Straddle means BUY and to SELL 1 Straddle means SELL". Any idea why I'd have opposite behaviors on the same Order screen for 2 different order tickets? I did create the DELL ticket in Options Trader because my existing Straddle didn't show up on my drop down tab today. I created the HPQ order via the drop down.

Very confusing...thanks...Scott

Edited August 20, 2012 by Xfanman

[Guest]

Ok I see part of the problem, the DELL order is a Negative # and the HPQ is a Positive. Why they were loaded separately I don't know. Also, when I change the DELL order to a positive number it doesn't change the BUY/SELL pop up information.

What's the best "easiest" way you other IB users preload orders in IB?

[Guest]

Ok I see part of the problem, the DELL order is a Negative # and the HPQ is a Positive. Why they were loaded separately I don't know. Also, when I change the DELL order to a positive number it doesn't change the BUY/SELL pop up information.

What's the best "easiest" way you other IB users preload orders in IB?

not sure whether you are talking about the mobile platform or TWS. But on TWS I usually bring up the option trader (which shows you the option chain with strikes and expiries) and use the 'combo' tab under 'trading' to add the strategy leg by leg (click on bids asks in the option chain) I always enter it in a way that it comes up as a positive premium (for that you'll have to enter the larger premium leg as a buy) no matter whther I want to buy it or sell (short) it. This way the buy/sell action does make a lot more sense to me (for example I sell a condor on the RUT for our 'income trade' (=IC) and I buy a condor on our earnings trades (=RIC)

Don't know if thats the 'easiest' way but that's what works for me.

[Guest]

Thanks Marco, that's how I usually enter an order also when I'm purchasing a Combo. Do you do the same thing to sell that combo or do you use Close Position or something else?

Thanks again...Scott

[Guest]

Thanks Marco, that's how I usually enter an order also when I'm purchasing a Combo. Do you do the same thing to sell that combo or do you use Close Position or something else?

Thanks again...Scott

well once I'm in a position I would add it to a watchlist (again with a positive premium regardless whether I'm long or short) and then sell it or buy it back from there.

Have only used a 'close position' button once and that liquidated my entire portfolio not quite sure what I did then but was at the very beginning at IB and thankfully I didn't have many positions yet so could easily re enter them and 'only' had to pay the comm to get back in - anyway since then I stay away from any close position button even though I'm sure I could learn how to use it properly if I'd look at the manual.

[Guest]

well once I'm in a position I would add it to a watchlist (again with a positive premium regardless whether I'm long or short) and then sell it or buy it back from there.

Have only used a 'close position' button once and that liquidated my entire portfolio not quite sure what I did then but was at the very beginning at IB and thankfully I didn't have many positions yet so could easily re enter them and 'only' had to pay the comm to get back in - anyway since then I stay away from any close position button even though I'm sure I could learn how to use it properly if I'd look at the manual.

Well I have used the Close Position selection before but somehow didn't manage to sell everything so I must be doing "something" right

Just to be safe I sold 1 contract of DELL first just to make certain it had the desired results, then I sold half of that position successfully. I STILL don't know what's different about this order than all the other ones I've done but as long as the pop ups remain accurate I should be ok. I did update the platform this morning I wonder if they changed something...I'll have to go check the change log to see.

Thanks for your help.....Scott

[Guest]

Well, maybe y'all can figure this one out.

In IB, I always use OptionTrader/Combo to setup my multileg trades, because it is the only way I know how to do it so far. When I mouse click the options I am interested in, they populate the combo order form, but IB decides whether it is initially entered as a buy or sell of each leg. I change it, if I need to. Usually, the first leg I choose is entered as a buy, then the next is a sell. It then alternates. But recently, they are all entered as sells. It would be nice to set this, so it is consistent, but I don't know how.

Today, IB decided to do it backwards from usual and I did not catch it, so I ended up doubling my HPQ position, instead of closing them. I caught the error as soon as it filled. (Filling immediately is what got my attention.) So I did a sell order for all of them and fortunately was able to get out at the price I had originally intended.

Later in the day, when I went to enter another sell order on another position, IB rejected the order, saying that I was a Pattern Day Trader and needed more money in my account. How in the heck did I get to be a PDT with one quick reversal of an erroneous order? And will they really keep you in a position that is time limited becasue of an administartive issue. Fideloty has told me that they will NEVER keep you from closing a position, only opening a new one.

[Guest]

Kelly, If you click specifically on the BID or ASK price (on the option chain line) while building your Combo it will populate the Buy and Sell side automatically for both the Put and Call legs.

As for you running afoul of the PDT rules I don't know what IB will do but OptionsHouse would let you close out any position you had entered into. I would hope IB would be the same way but I'd call them as soon as you can to make sure. Also, as you probably already know, each opening and closing of a leg of a spread counts as a round trip transaction as far as PDT is concerned so you could feasibly exceed the PDT rules by entering and existing just one IC on the same day

Maybe IB will cut you some slack since you got out of the trade right away but I wouldn't count on it....Good Luck.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Xfanman

[Guest]

I've loved IB/TWS so much more after I learned to put each trade (or ticker) in its own quote page/tab (hat tip, Kim, I think). Makes tracking things so much easier.

[Guest]

I've loved IB/TWS so much more after I learned to put each trade (or ticker) in its own quote page/tab (hat tip, Kim, I think). Makes tracking things so much easier.

I've seen Kim state that but haven't tried it. I wonder if I can do that in Mosaic? I'll play around with it later thanks.

[Guest listolyman]

I prefer to put all of my trades on the same tab so that i can view multiple trades at the same time.

[Guest]

Kelly, If you click specifically on the BID or ASK price (on the option chain line) while building your Combo it will populate the Buy and Sell side automatically for both the Put and Call legs.

As for you running afoul of the PDT rules I don't know what IB will do but OptionsHouse would let you close out any position you had entered into. I would hope IB would be the same way but I'd call them as soon as you can to make sure. Also, as you probably already know, each opening and closing of a leg of a spread counts as a round trip transaction as far as PDT is concerned so you could feasibly exceed the PDT rules by entering and existing just one IC on the same day

Maybe IB will cut you some slack since you got out of the trade right away but I wouldn't count on it....Good Luck.

Thanks, Scott. I knew there had to be a way, but never quite tumbled to it.

Does anyone know if there is more to being listed as a PDT than just needing 25K in your account. Doesn't it affect IRS treatment of your gains? I don't want to day trade, but entering and exiting a RIC in the same day, either to take a quick gain or cut a loss, is quite possible.

[Guest]

So I started using IB yesterday on the webtrader.. to close out a straddle do I just enter in an opposite sell to close order in the spread part?

[Guest]

So I started using IB yesterday on the webtrader.. to close out a straddle do I just enter in an opposite sell to close order in the spread part?

Yes, or you can use the "Close Position" feature by right clicking on the Straddle and selecting Trade/Close Position and following it from there.

[Guest]

Does anyone know what other ramifications there are to being tagged as a PDT, besides needing 25K in your account? Doe sit affect IRS treatment? Since just opening and closing one RIC on the same day triggers it, I need to understand it better.

[Guest]

Kelly, first of all I'm no expert, but as I understand it being labeled as a PDT is a SEC rule not an IRS treatment. The IRS classifies your trades as long term or short term but the PDT is to (allegedly) keep smaller traders from blowing up their accounts day trading. Usually the broker will freeze your account and put you in the penalty box for 90 days and not allow you to trade (except to close your existing positions) unless you meet the PDT margin call and deposit enough in your account to have more than 25k OR you wait our your time and they reset you after 90 days. Here is IB's statement on PDT -->

Overview:

The FINRA and NYSE instituted regulations intended to limit the amount of trading that can be done in accounts with small amounts of capital, specifically accounts with less than 25,000 USD Net Liquidation Value. A Pattern Day Trader is someone who effects 4 or more day trades within a 5 business day period. You have violated these rules and are therefore subject to PDT restrictions.

Background:

According to the governing bodies, you are now disallowed to initiate any new positions (though you can always close out preexisting positions) for a period of 90 days. You do have options which are:

a) Deposit funds into the account which bring the account value greater than USD 25,000. Accounts valued greater than USD 25,000 are allowed unlimited day trades.

Create a web ticket through Account Management, requesting that IB reset your PDT status. The subject of the ticket should be PDT Reset. Once the ticket is sent to IB, a representative will reply with a letter that contains instructions on what you need to do. Respond to this with corresponding answers if you wish to reset, and IB will review each case individually. In general, an account is allowed one reset in a 180 day period, and a maximum of 2 resets in a rolling calendar year.

Also, here's a link to the IRS treatment of Traders where it states that Trader or Daytrader has no meaning to the IRS -->

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc429.html

Edited August 21, 2012 by Xfanman

[Guest]

Thanks, Scott. I don't mind adding $ to my account, I've already requested the transfer, but it takes forever to get from Fidelity to IB and even longer for them to credit it. And their "reset" takes 5 days. So I'm gonna get hurt on the couple of calenders I have with short weeklies I need to roll this week.

"Poor, poor pitiful me."-Linda Rondstadt.

[Guest]

Kelly, if you don't mind spending the wire fee I find that the fastest way to move money. IB credited my wire almost immediately after I sent it.

[Guest DShaver]

That response you posted Xfan, is the same thing TD tells me, but they do give me warnings when I have "round trips" or day trades. The main page of my online account will show a box that says: Warning you have _ of 4 day trades in the past 5 days. with a link explaining the same thing you just did. But I do think it's bullshit.

[Guest]

Is anyone using Webtrader for placing orders?

I am working, so half of the day (and start of the session) behind firewall.

And Webtrader is so slow that makes placing orders almost impossible. Can't imagine say rolling IC with this one.

At times I am getting information that some script is running and making PC very slow. Has anyone had similar issue or could that be just my PC?

Is mobile version of IB flexible enough to place/amend orders?

Has anyone experience with other brokers while behind firewall?

[Guest]

Is anyone using Webtrader for placing orders?

I am working, so half of the day (and start of the session) behind firewall.

And Webtrader is so slow that makes placing orders almost impossible. Can't imagine say rolling IC with this one.

At times I am getting information that some script is running and making PC very slow. Has anyone had similar issue or could that be just my PC?

Is mobile version of IB flexible enough to place/amend orders?

Has anyone experience with other brokers while behind firewall?

their mobile app isn't too bad. Did you try that one?

[Guest]

Is anyone using Webtrader for placing orders?

I am working, so half of the day (and start of the session) behind firewall.

And Webtrader is so slow that makes placing orders almost impossible. Can't imagine say rolling IC with this one.

At times I am getting information that some script is running and making PC very slow. Has anyone had similar issue or could that be just my PC?

Is mobile version of IB flexible enough to place/amend orders?

Has anyone experience with other brokers while behind firewall?

Is this a work computer? Can you not install the desktop version of TWS, it works well even with slower network connections if you're able to do it. I've used the iPad and iPhone version of their Apps ( but not the Android) and you can trade combos on them both just fine. The only issue I've found is that you don't see the value of your trade before you commit to it. This caused me to buy 10x more contracts then I intended once ( but it turned out well) so you need to be cautious.

[Guest]

Yes, WebTrader is an extremely stripped down version of TWS. But at least it works behind a firewall. You can make TWS work behind a firewall, but you'd have to get your IT person to forward some ports to your work computer. This is usually in most companies both a security breach and also a red flag that you're trading options while you're supposed to be working. So perhaps it's not a good idea to request it. But, technically, it's a simple matter for IT to forward the ports if you have permission to do so.

I haven't tried this, but this might work. Since people here have stated that the mobile apps for IB seem to have some nice features, perhaps you can get a mobile app to work on your computer. I believe I've seen programs you can download that will spoof an app into thinking it's running on an iPhone. Thus, you could then use the mobile app on your PC. Again, I haven't tried this.